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PhlatFORMER fun machine

Discussion in 'PhlatFORMER General Chat' started by kram242, Feb 4, 2010.

  1. kram242

    kram242 Administrator Staff Member

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    Hey guys just wanted to give a place to share your ideas and opinions on the new Phlatboyz machine the PhlatFORMER :)
    Here is the video and some pictures from the live PhlatLAB show where we build and show case prototype #1 of the PhlatFORMER

    We have to say that we are super happy the way this tool turned out for a first prototype especially with all the new features added and tried for the first time. The next phase will be testing and experimenting with different materials and heat sources. We are sure to have another show with the final prototype demonstration and show and tell.
    Thank you guys for keeping this and exciting and fun time for all!
    Mark and Trish

    PhlatFORMER specs so far:
    * 18" L x 13-1/4" W x 7" H
    * 10" x 10" forming area
    *
    Lifting hinge frame for taller parts
    *
    All hardware will be included for assembly


    [pre] <object classid="clsid:d27cdb6e-ae6d-11cf-96b8-444553540000" width="448" height="336" id="utv247318" name="utv_n_800520"><param name="flashvars" value="autoplay=false" /><param name="allowfullscreen" value="true" /><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always" /><param name="src" value="http://www.ustream.tv/flash/video/4430943" /><embed flashvars="autoplay=false" width="448" height="336" allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always" id="utv247318" name="utv_n_800520" src="http://www.ustream.tv/flash/video/4430943" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" /></object> [/pre]

    Can't view the above video? Use the link below

    Video Link
    http://www.ustream.tv/recorded/4430943









    Attached files [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  2. rayclark

    rayclark Member

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    Can't see the video. Just a blank screen.

    RC
     
  3. Crash

    Crash Moderator Staff Member

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    That is such as cool product, Mark! I've read much about doing Vacuum Forming, and have considered on many occasions building one. Now I don't have to bother - I'll just buy a kit from you guys!

    Ray, I was able to see the video without any problems. It's a UStream embed and I'm using FireFox...
     
  4. kram242

    kram242 Administrator Staff Member

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    Thanks Mike :) I have a few tweaks here and there but its really going along good now.
    I hope to have the rubber sealer section by this week end and we are getting snowed in so maybe we will have a testing show :D

    Ray I added the video link under the video now, thank you for letting us know. I think its a setting in FireFox that gives people trouble with that. But the ink should work fine.
    Mark
     
  5. travisc

    travisc Member

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    Looks good!
    On most vacume formers there is a metal frame that holds the plastic that you heat up.
    How is that to be incorporated to fit over the vacume table on this design?
    I was waiting to see that part in the video.
    and wont the rubber thing in the lid stick to the hot plastic?
     
  6. kram242

    kram242 Administrator Staff Member

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    Thanks Travis,
    This is a really good question and I will do my best to explain
    This type of vacuum former is sort of a cross between a pressure former/ vacuum former
    It utilizes the pressure from the above (the neoprene screen) and the vacuum from below.
    I wanted to do it this way because in the test that I did on the normal vacuum only style machines, in order to get a fine detailed pull you would have to heat the plastic up too much so when it pulled it would leave the fine details but it would stretch the plastic so thin in order to pick up the details that the pulls came out very brittle and thin.
    The other option was to heat the plastic up to the right temperature and then pull the vacuum and taking one hand from the screen (wearing gloves) you would have to quickly press the plastic into the part being molded to try and pick up the details. You could of coarse not get every area before the plastic hardened and it would leave glove prints on the plastic as well.
    But the idea of creating this style machine was not really from the problems listed above but more because I on the normal vacuum style machines I would have so much wasted plastic because it need the out side edge of every sheet to create the seal to make the pull.
    Beyond that I found myself running into problems of having different sizes of plastic sheets that I wanted to use but I would have to make a frame for each different size.
    So I thought there must be a way to do this where we can use any size plastic we want without having to make frames and without have to over heat to pick up details.
    As it turns out Blindflight (Al) here on the Phlatforum works in a place that makes custom wheelchair accessories for handicap clients and they have a professional vacuum forming machine there and this is how they are able to pull some of the thicker plastics as well.
    As for heating the plastics you can use a frame if you like if you have several of the same size sheets or you can use just the sheet. Since the rubber sheet is taking the place of the air press from above its this sheet that makes the seal complete and allows for the vacuum to do the rest.
    I Hope the helps to explain the idea behind the PhlatFORMER concept. Now we just need to run it through it paces and make sure it works as well as we hope :)
    Here is the definition of pressure forming, where air pressure for us is replaced by the neoprene sheet.

    Pressure forming - In addition to utilizing a vacuum underneath the sheet, air pressure (typically 50 psi, but up to 100 psi) is applied on the back side of the sheet to help force it onto the mold. This additional force allows the forming of thicker sheets and creating finer details, textures, undercuts, and sharp corners.
     
  7. 3DMON

    3DMON Moderator Staff Member

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    This is very cool!
    I know what you were talking about in the vid about the shower liner rubber stuff. I agree with you thinking it would be too thick. I'm curious to what you will find for that rubber piece though. It would need to be pretty flexible and stretchy I would think.
     
  8. travisc

    travisc Member

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    what about the rubber sheet good you lay in your tool box to keep tools from moving around,
    or the stuff they make wetsuits from
     
  9. Anonymous

    Anonymous New Member

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    I sure wish the video would work so I'd know what you guys were talking about. Maybe the problem is related to this stinking netnanny server here at work, so I'm hoping I can view it later, at home.
     
  10. FozzyTheBear

    FozzyTheBear Member

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    This is one heck of a sweet project Mark and Trish.... Well done, way to go!!

    I can find a million uses for one of these. I'm just thinking of all the wheel pants and cowls and wing servo covers and all sorts of other goodies that can be made on one of these.

    One suggestion I would make, is to make several different sizes of machine available. I can see me finding uses for larger bed areas as well as the small one. I have a buddy that vac forms Star Wars storm trooper armour and it would be good to have a bed size large enough to do stuff like that too.

    Best Regards,
    Julian (Fozzy The Bear)
     
  11. Flashsolutions

    Flashsolutions Active Member

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    Dang you Mark! As if I didn't have enough hobbies already! Let's see now, sailing on Mon and Thurs, Outdoor Flying Wed and Fri, Indoor Flying Sat and Sun, repairs on Tuesday, cutting and assembling new planes in what spare time I can find in between. And now, vacuum forming parts for all of the above...

    It is certainly exciting. Can't wait to see how this turns out.
     
  12. kram242

    kram242 Administrator Staff Member

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    :D Thank you guys for all the words of encouragement! This is our drive...

    Travis and Shaun, To answer the questions on the material used. I did stop by an looked at the tool box liners while I was in Lowe's and I have some here at the house. I just don't think it will stretch enough for what we are trying to do.
    I am getting a sample of the stuff they use on the industrial machines and I will try that out.
    I am told by Al that it is a clear material, which is nice because you can see to line up the part as you go in to seal it :)
    Julian, If this one goes well and there is a demand I don't see any reason why we could not make a larger version as well.
    Dennis, I am not sure what the problem could be. I have four computers here and all of the videos show up fine. I think it must be that work computer locking flash out?
    Larry, We are not stopping until all of us has the ability to own a state of the art miniature factory right in their garage. Capable of producing whatever a person can dream up, all a t prices we can afford :)

    Thanks again guys, it means a lot to us.
    Mark and Trish
     
  13. Flashsolutions

    Flashsolutions Active Member

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    I am already finding uses for it!! Dreaming up a new design for a RC Sail Car, need a winch cover. This is going to be so cool!!!

     
  14. kram242

    kram242 Administrator Staff Member

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    Cool idea, if you want to design it I will cut a mold out and cast it in plaster and give it a go on the prototype machine :) maybe we could do it on a live show? Then I could mail you the cast and the pull :)
    Mark
     
  15. Anonymous

    Anonymous New Member

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    Mark, it WAS the netnanny system at work! I just finished watching the video at home and that little machine looks great! I've searched lots of garage sales in the quest for a Mattel Vac-U-Form, but with no luck. I'll be waiting for one of these! :D
     
  16. tvcasualty

    tvcasualty New Member

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    That is VERY cool, if it works sign me up! How will you apply the heat I wonder?
     
  17. kram242

    kram242 Administrator Staff Member

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    Thank you guys I hope that it works like its be planed :D
    Erik here is what I was thinking of using http://www.target.com/s/186-9086908-699 ... r%5Fsingle

    [​IMG]
    or something like it. I don't think you will need a diffuser to dissipate the heat because this is already 8" :D Would have to build a wire rack of sorts to hold the plastic above the heat and it will be nice to be able to flip it over and get both sides too :)
    Mark
     
  18. Vintauri

    Vintauri New Member

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    You guys are killing me. I am hoping the Balsa Buddy is something I can afford and now this too?!?!?! Lets hope the tax man is nice to me this year. :D

    Steve
     
  19. mavacpjm71

    mavacpjm71 New Member

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    Saving my lunch money for the Phlatformer and Balsabuddy :) Another set of tools for my RC needs. Way to go Mark and Trish!!! :mrgreen:

    Peter
     
  20. theothers

    theothers Administrator Staff Member

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    Thank you everyone for all of the positive feedback!! We're so excited!!

    How about one of these to hold the plastic while it's warming over the hot plate? It opens and snaps closed. Attached files .jpg][​IMG]
     
  21. 7up

    7up Moderator Staff Member

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    Hey Mark, have you guys ever thought of trying a large inner tube for the rubber part? Maybe the kind that you float around on at the lake? Pretty thick but also very flexible. Not clear but hey price is also an issue here and you could get lots of material from one tube.

    -Buk
     
  22. kram242

    kram242 Administrator Staff Member

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    That's a good idea Buk! I will see what they have here at the lake. But I think your right it may be to thick especially the larger ones like they have here from truck tires.
    I was at the hardware store yesterday and asked them about thin latex sheets and they said they have them, but when they went back to check they were out! :cry:
    I do have some test samples coming in the mail from Blindflight so we will see how it goes with those.
    It was supposed to be here today but I don't think the mail is going to make it today :lol: Attached files [​IMG]
     
  23. 7up

    7up Moderator Staff Member

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    Lol, you may be right. All of ours was in the form of rain, we are dealing with flooding now. I would have rather had the snow.
     
  24. kram242

    kram242 Administrator Staff Member

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    I wonder if when this melts we will have the flooding problem as well?
    Mark
     
  25. frankmcneilll

    frankmcneilll New Member

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    Hi All,

    I decided to call this one The Kitchen Thermoformer Concept, not because it was invented by the guy who invented the Kitchen rudder, but because it would be used mostly in kitchens. A sheet of thermoformable plastic would be clamped between a shallow bottom part that would sit on top of a burner and a top part to hold an upside-down pattern. Heat from a gas or electric burner would be transmitted from the bottom part to soften a sheet of plastic and provide the pressure of hot air to push the softened plastic up and over the pattern. If the pressure of hot air was not adequate for this purpose, there might be some kind of provision for injecting metered amounts of tap water which would flash into steam when it contacted the area closest to the burner. The top part, and possible the pattern as well, would have vents for the escape of air displaced by the forming operation.

    Best wishes, Frank
     

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