My flying club: Aero Sport RC, wants us to build a new charging station and I thought it might be good to discuss here. I was going to start a thread on RC Groups, but I thought you guys are nicer and would have really good and constructive feedback. I also plan on making a model of the charging station with my PhlatPrinter to bring to our next club meeting.

Let me know what you think about the plan so far and any experience you have with charging stations etc. We do not have AC at our club so power for our charging station will be off grid.

 

Current Aero Sport RC System

1 AC Delco Voyager Battery M27MF Marine 105 Ah $100.00
1 EverStart Battery 115 Ah (Deep Cycle from Walmart?) ~$100.00
1 BatteryMINDer® Model SCC005-AA-S1 Aviation Solar Charger Controller Desulfator 12 Volt with 5W Panel $140.00 http://www.thebatteryminder.com/aviationsolarcharger12vwith5wpanel-p-92.html?osCsid=45e67be8318615042628e0c43fe78a0a

Total Cost: $340.00

220 Ah total, 110 Ah usable (discharge to 50%)

New System Summary (Subject to Edits)

Initial Budget
$500.00

Capacity
100Ah per week (requires 200Ah of batteries at 12Volts)

Current Consensus on what our new system will contain:
1. Use Industrial deep cycle flooded lead acid batteries (these are the batteries used in fork lifts, golf carts, and floor washing machines).
2. AGM batteries are too expensive for our budget and are out.
3. We will charge the batteries to 80% with our car alternators, but be wary of burning up our alternators.
4. We will install an Amp Hour meter to log usage.
5. If we have enough money we can get a solar panel and charge control to top off the batteries and disconnect the charging stations when the storage batteries are too low, or we can use the solar panel and charge control we have already.
6. Voltage and Amp draw displays will be installed so we can see what's happening as we charge our various airplane batteries.

We started this process by reviewing the system we saw on the Model Airplane news web site: http://www.modelairplanenews.com/ME2/dirmod.asp?sid=17F3E50B054A4C1C9FDD81B36E52B522&nm=Site+Features&type=news&mod=News&mid=9A02E3B96F2A415ABC72CB5F516B4C10&tier=3&nid=C892E09F3D534A448AC6124CAC23F56D
This looks like a pretty nice charging table. Maybe we can base our charging station on this and modify it as we see fit regardless of what charging system we decide on. This system was built by the Loudoun County Aeromodelers Association (LCAA) in Northern Virginia, lets call this the LCAA system from here on.
Attached files

 

Charging Station Details

Specs so far (subject to editing):
Expandable for extra storage batteries and charge electronics etc.
4' wide
40" high table top
Overhead roof 6" larger than station
Visible usage meters
Port for charging via automobile
Fire Proof top
Skids for moving and preventing sinking
Roofed and enclosed "Dog House" for batteries

Would making the charging station movable present a theft risk?

Design
Will be designed in CAD
Design Style to be determined, suggestions:
Craftsman House Styling

 

Storage Battery Info
This section will hold collected info on various storage batteries.

Our choices so far for batteries are:
Industrial Fork Lift, Floor Machine or Golf Cart Lead Acid Flooded (FM or GC)
Gel Cell (eliminated from consideration)
Absorbed Glass Matt (AGM)
Trolling motor deep cycle batteries (Best Cost to Performance in my opinion)

Supposedly for best battery life it's recommended not to run most deep cycle batteries down below 50% of their capacity, so we should add a auto shut of switch to the system.

Energizer E29HM (Johnson Controls & Battery Group)
675CCA/875MCA
205RCM/125 Amp hours
Dated 11/07
$67.83 ($0.54 per Ah) (Walmart and Sams Club)

With four of the above batteries we could have 250Amp Hours of usable charging for $272



AGM Batteries: From what I have read so far one of the best storage batteries we can get is an MK Absorbed Glass Mat (AGM) battery, the problem is they are expensive:
http://www.mkbattery.com/images/VRLA_TechManual.pdf
http://www.mkbattery.com/content_container.php?page=downloads-and-technical-reference


Industrial Lead Acid Flooded require more care, are not as safe, but are much cheaper, however all must be shipped motor freight adding cost. We might want to buy these batteries locally.
http://www.trojanbattery.com/
http://www.crownbattery.com/
http://www.exide.com/


Costs

AGM Battery Prices
westmountainradio
79 Ah MK AGM Battery: $199.95 (2.53 per Ah)

ebatteriestogo
55 Ah MK AGM Battery costs: $164.95 (2.99 per Ah)
92 Ah MK AGM Battery costs: $233.95 (2.54 per Ah)
200 Ah MK AGM Battery costs: $468.95 (2.34 per Ah) (Requires Motor Freight Shipping)

Optima Direct AGM
75 Ah YellowTop Group 31: $269.00 (3.59 per Ah)

Industrial Battery Prices

BEST BATTERY & PRICE WITH LOCAL LOCATION
Staab Batteryhttp://www.staabbattery.com
AURORA IL
Trojan T105-RE 6 Volt 225 AH: $246 (123x2) ($1.09 per Ah)

Northern Arizona Wind and Sun
Trojan T105-RE 6 Volt 225 AH: $290 (145x2) ($1.28 per Ah)
Crown CR-225 6 Volt, 225 Amp-Hour: $254 (127x2) ($1.13 per Ah)

ebatteriestogo.com
Trojan T105-RE 6 Volt 225 AH: $278 (139x2) ($1.23 per Ah)
Exide GC135 6 Volt 226 AH: $296 (148x2) ($1.30 per Ah)

Helium's Battery Source
Golf cart battery 100Ah: $184.62 (92.31x2) ($1.84 per Ah)

Good info from windsun.com on various types of storage batteries: http://www.windsun.com/Batteries/Battery_FAQ.htm

List of lead acid batteries used in electric car conversions (cheap and reliable) http://www.electric-cars-are-for-girls.com/6-volt-golf-cart-battery.html

Local Battery Suppliers:

STAAB BATTERY Chicago
AURORA IL
1102 Ridgeway Ave.
Aurora Illinois 60506
877-897-1226 local: 630-897-1226 FAX:630-897-1296
Hours: Mon-Fri 7:30 to 4:00 PM

Battery Service Corporation
BENSENVILLE
410 Evergreen Avenue
Bensenville , IL 60106
(630) 595-4244
Tornado Industries LLC
CHICAGO
7401 W Lawrence Avenue
Chicago, Illinois, 60706
ymarcial@tornadovac.com
708-867-5100 EXT8326

Storage Battery Systems, Inc.
N56 W16665 Ridgewood Drive
Menomonee Falls, WI., 53051 USA
262-703-5800
F-262-703-3073

Continental Battery
4565 N. Square Drive,
High Ridge, MO 63049 Attached files

 

Electrical & Electronics for Charging and Monitoring
This section will hold info on the electronics installed to charge storage batteries and monitor output etc.

Some guys recommend a switch that shuts off the storage batteries when the are depleted to 50%.
The LCAA System uses the following electronics:
Charge Control: MorningStar ProStar 30 ~$200.00 http://www.morningstarcorp.com/en/pro-star
Medusa Research power meters accumulate up to 999Ah $38.00http://www.medusaproducts.com/Power-Analyzers/pa-60100T.htm
50amp fuse between the storage battery and power strip http://www.napaonline.com/Search/Detail.aspx?R=BK_7822160_0254064750
Fuse Holder http://www.napaonline.com/Search/Detail.aspx?R=BK_7825317_0254064664

A good discussion on using alternators to charge AGM Batteries:http://www.bitwrangler.com/wt/lv-ab-agm.html

Balmar has a good video on charging battery banks with alternators: http://www.balmar.net/

Lifeline has some good concise info on charging AGM Batteries: http://www.bdbatteries.com/mcharging_procedures.php

Info from Fridge and Solar about AGM battery care and charging: http://www.fridge-and-solar.net/agm.htm

For charging batteries from AC power IOTA battery chargers seem to be good and are reasonably priced:
IOTA DLS-45http://store.solar-electric.com/dls-45.html
IOTA DLS-75http://store.solar-electric.com/ioten55amp12.html

 

Power Sources
This section will hold info on power sources such as generators, solar panels, wind turbines etc.

Honda Generators: http://www.hondapowerequipment.com/products/generators/
Lawn mower DC power source: http://theepicenter.com/tow082099.html
Harbor Freight 45 Watt Solar Panel Kit: http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctafdisplayitem.taf?Itemnumber=90599
Wind power option, I probably too expensive, but here is some info: http://www.boost-energy.com/ampair/products_product3.asp
Cool outback gas powered alternators for charging agm batteries: http://www.altenbatterychargers.com/

 

System Field Location
This spot will hold info on the charging station system location in our club field.

Charging Station Placement suggestions so far:
Option 1 east of last plane stand
Option 2 east of and in line with plastic picnic table

Criteria:
Relatively safe from errant aircraft.
Pit area would be the safest place.
Just past the last airplane bench to the west.
or possibly somewhere along the pit fence.
Leave space to drive car and tractors between fence and airplane tables.

Solar Panel Placement, if used
Good view of the sky to the east and west.
Not be to far away to the point of having to trench cables.

Attached files

 

meister, after talking with you tonight I have a few thoughts, a honda generator alone could support quite a few chargers, the downside is that anytime you need to charge, you would need to run the generator, upside is that it is cheaper than any other form of power. we could add deep cycle batteries for power storage,.

relying on say two deep cycle batteries, with the 45 watt solar cells at harbor freight allows topping off the bateries while no one is at the field. the old solar system did pretty well for how small it was, so a 45 watt system is a huge improvement over what we have now, but it will be just barely enough to keep up with what we now use as far as the amount of chargers we hook up to it. we can still use the jumper cables for using someones car to top off the system on heavy use weekends. still not a very expensive system for the club to absorb and we can start out with one 45 watt system with the stipulation of adding a second 45 watt system next year if we feel that the single 45 watt system is not quite enough. might be easier on the membership to be able to do a 90 watt system over time.


Placement of the solar pannels needs to have a relatively god view of the sky to the east and west, yet not be to far away to the point of having to trench cables, yet also be in an area relatively safe from errant aircraft. so I would think, the pit area would be the safest place, maybe just past the last airplane bench to the west, or possibly somewhere along the pit fence, keeping in mind that Fred needs to have enough space to get his car between the fence and the airplane tables to load and unload.

some links I found that may be of interest.

rcgroups discusion of building a charging station
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=944478

an alternative to the harbor freight system available at costco, slightly more, but more watts.
http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.as ... opnav=&s=1

 

Helium,

Good points on the charging station and solar panel location, I added your suggestions to the posts above.

I read the thread at rc groups you posted, good stuff. I found this link in that message thread the most useful for batteries: http://www.solar-electric.com/deep_cycle_batteries/deep_cycle_battery_faq.htm

 

Thanks Mark and Trish,

We are excited about this project! There are lots of aspects to the project so we are trying to get them organized in this thread. We look forward to everyones suggestions and feedback on the system. We'll probably just start with a charging station with storage batteries at first, but we want to design a system that can accept various storage battery charging sources for the future.

 

We need to work up a plan

1Location and size of work station
2 type of recharging---solar,wind,generator or car charge or combination of all or some
3style or design
4 Budget
5expansion in the future as needed

 

Ebatteriestogo has free shipping and a good variety of batteries

 

Ferrari Dan,

Ebatteriestogo seems like a pretty good deal with free shipping, they also carry all the batteries we are considering for the charge station, I'll add them as a source in the battery section above.

As far as size goes Jim suggested a 4' wide double sided work station, with a roof over it. Do you agree on this size? I think it would be a good size to start with.

For location we are pretty much limited to the south east end of the field if we are going to solar charge. Ken suggested making sure we don't block the plane stands, so Fred can pull his van in. He said maybe the position just east of the last plane stand we have now? I was thinking of putting the station in line with the plastic picnic tables. What do you and Jim Think?

I can design the station in CAD. The style will be totally up to us, maybe we could make in the style of a craftsman house, that would be cool!

We can build the system and then price different options, right, or should we set a limit now?

Yes I think we should set up for expansion for sure especially since we are all getting into bigger and bigger electric planes. Although on the other hand we only have 25 members, not 125 like some of the clubs have out there.

I put all your feedback into the first four posts above.

 

just poking around the internet for alternitives to solar and found this,

http://www.shop.senecaelectronicsonline ... oductId=76

for the hobbiest in us,
http://www.mdpub.com/Wind_Turbine/index.html

and, check out some of the small 100 amp designs at the bottom.
http://www.otherpower.com/otherpower_wind.shtml

come to think of it since the brushless motors we use are realy just 3 phase dc motors, a large brushless motor(cheap at hobby city) could actually be turned into a generator ?

 

Can't we just hook a belt around dan's ferrari rear wheel to generate power ? I think I saw this on an episode of speed racer once

 

Maybe that would get rid of my gut!

 

Hey, I've spent 57 years to get this gut - I'm not giving it up now!

 

Helium, these links are pretty cool, maybe we could start a side project to build a small wind turbine after we get the charging station complete. If we buy a good charge controller we can hook almost anything up to it to charge the batteries as long as it doesn't exceed the amp rating, most people are using 30amp rated charge controls so we would have to have a lot of panels and wind turbines to overload that!

It looks like Scorpion is planning on exactly what you said about brushless motors check out their home page: http://www.scorpionsystem.com/

I have also been reading that you can burn up your car alternator with AGM storage batteries, they supposedly will draw so much current the alternator will overheat, these AGM batteries need some kind of regulator in line to limit current if we are going to charge them from a car. The upside is that if we can supply a lot of current to AGM batteries they can be charged very quickly.

 

ok, this is some good stuff, especialy that scorpion is going to do wind turbines and generators, mabey something geared to a club as opposed to homeowner use would be more affordable.

on the side of reality we need to agree on the basic components. To start off our project, I think we should go with one of harbor freight solar panels, and the two batteries. Jim's Idea of a 4' wide double sided charging table sounds good. instead of my first idea of using brick pavers for the tabletop, the use of ceramic tiles would be lighter. but have the tiles laid into wood framework, unglued incase any of them ever need to be replaced. solar panels mounted to the roof.


in the future we can add more solar panels, and I will further investigate building a wind turbine to add later down the road.

 

Ok Guys, I think we need to start calculating how many Amp Hours (Ah) we use on a typical day, so we can get a base line for how much capacity our system may need.

Batteries are charged from 20% full, but chargers are not 100% efficient, so lets use 100% of the rated capacity of our usage calculations. Here are my calculations:

Dan Meyer (MeisterTek)
mAh of Pack, No. of Charges, Sum
2100 3 6300
1100 3 3300
1200 1 1200
800 12 9600
Total Ah Used 20.4

Jim Audo
mAh of Pack, No. of Charges, Sum
1100 1 1100
1100 1 1100
1100 1 1100
2200 2 4400
2200 1 2200
1000 1 1000
Total Ah Used 10.9

Ken Zinnen(Helium)
mAh of Pack, No. of Charges, Sum
1100 3 3300
2350 2 4700
4000 2 8000
Total Ah Used 16

Average Usage 15.77 Ah
Number of Stations 8
Storage Required 126.1 Ah
50% Discharge Multiplier 2

Storage Battery Capacity Required 252.3 Ah

 

Added Jim Audo's and Ken Zinnen's daily Ah usage above.