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Welcome to The Phlatforum PhlatPrinter III

Brushless Motor Spindle (3d printed drop in replacement)

Discussion in 'Phlatprinter 3 MODS' started by 3DMON, Nov 12, 2012.

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  1. 3DMON

    3DMON Moderator Staff Member

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    Ok guys. I finally got around to making a brushless motor spindle.
    After getting the Phlatbot I realized it would be so easy to make one the way I wanted it to be. This thing is so nice compared to the flex shaft. There is no run out at all.
    My flex shaft lasted a long time but just recently the cable was getting really bad. Perfect timing I guess.
    The motor is only pulling 5 amps full speed when cutting into wood so it doesn't use much power. I was getting temps of 130 deg F on the motor and about the same on the ESC. I'm ok with that and don't see the need for extra cooling.

    Here it is.

    [vimeo]http://www.vimeo.com/53370695[/vimeo]

    Parts I used:
    Motor: 3536 1400kv with a 4mm shaft (mine came from http://www.Leaderhobby.com )

    ER11 8mm straight shank collet chuck with an 1/8" and 1/4" collet
    (ebay seller ctctoolseller http://stores.ebay.com/CTC-Tools?_trksid=p2047675.l2563 )

    1- 4mm x 8mm Flexible Shaft Coupler (ebay)

    2- Flange Bearing (8x16x5mm MF88ZZ bearings)

    4- 6-32 x 2" bolts with lock nuts

    Brushless 25 amp esc

    Servo tester to control the esc

    12v 30amp Power supply Attached files Brushless Spindle painted.skp (1.1 MB)Â [​IMG] [​IMG] Spindle base.stl (146.4 KB)Â Spindle top.stl (188.6 KB)Â Washer.stl (19.6 KB)Â
     
    3DMON, Nov 12, 2012
    #1
  2. David Kirtley

    David Kirtley New Member

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    How are you tensioning/preloading the bearings?

    Did you need to reprogram the ESC?

    Looks really nice.
     
    David Kirtley, Nov 12, 2012
    #2
  3. kram242

    kram242 Administrator Staff Member

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    Shaun this is an awesome project! :good:
    It looks like it cutting very well.
    Have you determined the optimal feed rate for foam? Does it bog down if you go too fast?
    Your parts fitting better due to less run-out at the bit?
    Thank you for sharing this
    Mark and Trish
     
    kram242, Nov 12, 2012
    #3
  4. 3DMON

    3DMON Moderator Staff Member

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    David,
    The ER11 spindle buts up against the lower bearing (it has a slight collar so no washer needed) then up top I have a washer in between the top bearing and the flexible shaft coupler. It's all just pushed together and tightened down. I originally was going to throw a thrust bearing in there but I decided it didn't need it with the type of stuff we cut on the Phlatprinter.

    Mark,
    No bog at all. It performs the same as the flex shaft or better as far as power goes. That video was cutting the foam at 120 ipm. That's the same as the flex shaft.
    Less run out will always give better fits but there wasn't much run out with the flex shaft. The main thing with no run out is my 1/32" bits thank me more when I'm cutting into 1/6" ply :D .
     
    3DMON, Nov 13, 2012
    #4
  5. TigerPilot

    TigerPilot Well-Known Member

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    Shaun, please let me know how it cuts wood. I chose a bigger, and slower, motor because of the wood cutting that I do. Almost any motor will be OK for foam. My motor is a 5055 700KV. I use the same collet shaft that you use. Since my motor has a 8mm shaft, I just replaced the motor shaft with this one.
     
    TigerPilot, Nov 13, 2012
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  6. 3DMON

    3DMON Moderator Staff Member

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    Yoram it cuts wood great. It hogs right through it no different than the flex shaft or rotozip did.
    I wanted to go this route so I can have the high speeds or the low speeds without needing to supply a ton of voltage.
     
    3DMON, Nov 13, 2012
    #6
  7. thunder hawk

    thunder hawk Member

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    Could you make one of these for me?
    I could use one.

    AMAZING feat of engineering. :doubleup: :doubleup: :doubleup: :doubleup: :doubleup:

    Cheers.
    GHB :D
     
    thunder hawk, Nov 13, 2012
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  8. jonquinn

    jonquinn Member

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    does the planet CNC card control the motor speed (with the ESC)? if not, then how do you control the motor speed/ESC?
    This looks like something I'd like to try eventually.
     
    jonquinn, Nov 13, 2012
    #8
  9. iflyos

    iflyos Member

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    Shaun, that is one cool mod. Of course, I wanna hate you for it, cause it gives me ideas...I need to look hard at the MKI gantry now... :D

    I am gonna assume you printed the mount out of ABS?
     
    iflyos, Nov 13, 2012
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  10. pagercam

    pagercam New Member

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    From the photos it looks like the tube with the bearings for the shaft is 3d printed, is that correct?
    I'msurprised that 3d printed material is strong enough to take the stresses of cnc work. Cutting foam shouldn't create much stress but wood and other denser materials I would assume would transfer the stresses and pressure into the structure and be too much for 3d printed plastic or even molded ABS.

    I've been interested in brushless spindle motors for a while and have wondered about the benefits of the motor connected via a shaft coupler like your versus a belt driven scheme with the motor next to the cutting spindle which should hopefully isolate the motor vibrations from the cutting spindle which should minimize run out.

    Very nice work!!!
     
    pagercam, Nov 13, 2012
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  11. 3DMON

    3DMON Moderator Staff Member

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    Thunder hawk,
    Yes I could print these for members who don't have a 3d printer but I would like to get more tests and make sure it is good to go. I'm sure it will hold up because I tried breaking the thing in 2 and it didn't budge. I should be able to do more testing within a weeks time and will post here to let you know.

    Johnquinn,
    The planet cnc card does not control the speed of it. I use a servo tester to control the speed.

    iflyos,
    Nope its PLA and very strong.

    pagercam,
    Yes it is 3d printed where the bearings go in. I'm amazed at how strong this stuff is. I've found as long as the plastic is properly bonding to itself it becomes very strong. I thought about a belt drive but this was simple and works very well.
     
    3DMON, Nov 13, 2012
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  12. PAULE

    PAULE Member

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    Well how cool is that Mark Trish -you guys never seas to amaze me :D great job :fugly:
    Im very proud of you guys -just amazing :flying:
     
    PAULE, Nov 14, 2012
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  13. thunder hawk

    thunder hawk Member

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    Just send me a quote for a complete unit, and I'll see what I can do.

    Great Job. :D
    GHB :D
     
    thunder hawk, Nov 14, 2012
    #13
  14. rescue911

    rescue911 Active Member

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    WOW that is really COOL.
     
    rescue911, Nov 14, 2012
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  15. xtremeRCpilot

    xtremeRCpilot Member

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    Very nice Shaun, I would love to incorporate this on my MK II :) Probably a bit of work but just to not hear the rotozip for hours on end would make this so worth it !!!

    Thanks
    John
     
    xtremeRCpilot, Nov 15, 2012
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  16. Crash

    Crash Moderator Staff Member

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    Nice work, Shaun! I, like Tim, have been inspired by your work (gee thanks, like I didn't already have enough on my plate. LoL).

    Keep us posted on the longevity of this setup. I am pleased that PLA has proved to be such a strong substrate.

    Now I can't wait to see what you come up with next!
     
    Crash, Nov 16, 2012
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  17. PCPhill

    PCPhill New Member

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    The creativity on these forums is amazing! Very cool...
     
    PCPhill, Nov 17, 2012
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  18. Helno

    Helno Member

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    This looks like it would be a great upgrade.

    I don't have a 3d printer but I took a look at how much it would be to get it printed by shapeways and it looks like around $60 for the two big parts. With some tinkering with the design you could probably reduce the material volume required without decreasing strength.
    Making the part between the mounting clamps a honeycomb would save a lot of material volume.

    If it is going to cost you nearly that much to make them at home you might want to look into selling them via Shapeways. You can set a $ or % markup and they deal with all the selling/shipping and cut you a check.
     
    Helno, Dec 2, 2012
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  19. 3DMON

    3DMON Moderator Staff Member

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    That's seems really expensive. With our type of 3d printers we can tell it not to fill it solid by whatever percentage we want in the software. This is nice because I don't have to design the "honeycomb" into.
     
    3DMON, Dec 3, 2012
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  20. 3DMON

    3DMON Moderator Staff Member

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    Well I've done enough testing and I am still very happy with this unit.
    I'm thinking I will sell the 3d printed parts for $15 (Phlatboyz special) + $5.95 flat rate priority mail in the US (outside US will be whatever it cost) Also I have enough bearings for 2 more units. For a set of bearings to go with a unit would be $6 more. If anybody wants me to print one for them just let me know. Attached files [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2015
    3DMON, Dec 3, 2012
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  21. 3DMON

    3DMON Moderator Staff Member

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    I now only have enough bearings for 2 more units.
     
    3DMON, Dec 4, 2012
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  22. TAS Foamies

    TAS Foamies New Member

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    I LIKE THIS ALOT!!!!! This is what I'm talking about. Ingenuity at its finest!!!!!! I'd love to build something like this for my next machine!
     
    TAS Foamies, Dec 5, 2012
    #22
  23. thunder hawk

    thunder hawk Member

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    Something you folks might think of doing, is to make rubber molds of your 3D printed items.
    Doing this would allow you to make molded parts out of Task Plastic. Check it out.

    After you have developed your part and are happy with it, make copies of it out of high
    strength urethane plastic. Doing this may save you some money on production parts you
    want to sell. Molding your parts also reduces the wear and tear on your 3D printer.

    Hope this is useful.
    GHB :D
     
    thunder hawk, Dec 7, 2012
    #23
  24. jonquinn

    jonquinn Member

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    I didn't notice on their site, but I wonder if there are DIY products like this that allow you to pour fiber reinforced plastic for extra strength?
     
    jonquinn, Dec 8, 2012
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  25. thunder hawk

    thunder hawk Member

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    I have done fiber reinforced plastic parts with Task Plastic.
    take some Carbon fiber tow and chop it up into small threads about an inch long.

    Mix part A with the chopped tow. do the same for part B of the Task Plastic.
    Mix Parts A and B together per the mixing instructions for Task Plastic.
    Pour the mixture into your mold. After curing, remove the part from the mold
    and it should be very strong. You'll need to experiment with mix ratios to get
    the part to come out the way you want.
    Remember the more carbon fiber you add the thicker the mixture will be.
    It can be hard to pour a two part cavity mold if the material is to thick.

    Hope this helps.
    George :D
     
    thunder hawk, Dec 8, 2012
    #25
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