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PhlatCode Multipass Manglerizer NOW V 1.2.0

Discussion in 'SketchUcam Related Software' started by FozzyTheBear, Nov 17, 2009.

  1. kram242

    kram242 Administrator Staff Member

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  2. Jnida63

    Jnida63 Member

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    Mark, I have one of those and even at the slowest speed with a 1/32 bit it still melts, a chipbreaker type bit might work.
    The speed controller is awesome even though I can't cut plastic with it
     
  3. kram242

    kram242 Administrator Staff Member

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    hmm I really thought that may solve your problem, but I see you already use one. I just picked one of these for myself myself :)
    I think you may have to go with a blast of air? or larger bit perhaps? Maybe instead of the speed controller you could get a spindle control circuit, I think you might be able to go even slow with one of these?
    Just trying to think of ideas that may help, I will keep thinking on it.
    Mark
     
  4. JBourdon

    JBourdon New Member

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    I don't want to hijack this thread.

    I don't have one speed variator, Jnida63 has. no worries.

    The problems with larger bits is they don't match my feature size.typically i run a bit with the same diameter as the width of the material I am cutting. (1.6, 3.2, and 6.4 mm)

    I found while researching the topic:
    http://kalikosystems.co.uk/index.php?p= ... hining-ABS

    "Melting of ABS is always a potential problem, but you can smell it pretty quickly. My non-professional understanding is that the fumes should be avoided as much as possible and reasonable ventilation should be provided. The router should be used at minimum rotation speed. Surprisingly, melting often occurs even with sharp bits when your cutting feed rate is too slow. So if melting occurs, withdraw the router, let the bit cool down, clear out the flutes and try pushing the router a little faster next time. Trend sell a special 6.4mm bit for machining ABS, this is expensive (about $20), does an excellent job and should be considered if you intend to route ABS, PVC, etc frequently."

    I tried what they say, and always arrive to the same result :-/
    That's why I thought a software solution would be worth trying.
     
  5. FozzyTheBear

    FozzyTheBear Member

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    You're not Hijacking the thread..... I think your idea is very interesting....

    I do however think that it's more likely to be be a problem with the wrong bit type.... Let me explain that one. What happens when Plexi and ABS burns is usually that the bit clogs with material and just rubs instead of cutting. This just makes things worse, because instead of a cut you get a lot of friction.

    I have cut plexi using multipass and it works very well even at 25000 RPM. You can see the plexi cut I did for my Arcade Control Panel further up the thread.... The bits I use for that are either
    1) A straight router bit... this has two cutting edges that run absolutely vertical up the bit, no spiral to the cut. And that actually works very well.
    OR
    2) a Slot Drill.... These are normally used for cutting metal in a vertical mill... They're like an Endmill but with only two flutes. and a very shallow spiral to them.

    Those both seem to work without melting the plastic. The air blower idea might work, but it would require quite high pressure, to blow the chips out of the flutes. The problem is that once they jam in there they get hot and start to melt almost instantly. once that happens it's game over! So air cooling may not solve the problem.

    Best Regards,
    Julian (Fozzy The Bear)
     
  6. JBourdon

    JBourdon New Member

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    Hey julian,
    thanks for your answer.
    I'll try with a straight router bit. sounds promising.
    will let you know
     
  7. JBourdon

    JBourdon New Member

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    Hi everybody,
    Does using the plunge tool from the PhlatScript crashes the mangelizer?
     
  8. rjarois

    rjarois Moderator Staff Member

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    JBourdon, you are seeing the importance of speed and feeds....if these parameter's are not rite in any material, you will see trobs...eg, tool failure, premature tool wear, bad cut finishes, work movement, and all kinds of other things i cannot think of this morning, lols. i posted a sfm chart in the general phlatprinter section...oh yea, your tooling has to be rite for the material to be cut....good luck, randy.
     
  9. rjarois

    rjarois Moderator Staff Member

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    mark, trish...this stuff should probably be moved to the cutting section also...then delete this post please thanks, randy.
     
  10. kram242

    kram242 Administrator Staff Member

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    Good idea Randy, I will move as soon as I can. We are gearing up to go get the machine today!! :D
    Mark
     
  11. JBourdon

    JBourdon New Member

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    Hi rjarois
    thanks for the info, but I mean, if I use the plunge tool, it seem to crash the mangeliser
     
  12. rjarois

    rjarois Moderator Staff Member

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    JBourdon, sorry. the question i was answering ,,is not ther no more.....about the plunge tool, i donno...randy.
     
  13. kram242

    kram242 Administrator Staff Member

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    I think Fozzy is visiting with his family for the holidays. Maybe when he get back he can help you with this question Jbourdon
    Mark
     
  14. FozzyTheBear

    FozzyTheBear Member

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    Hi , My family finally left my house yesterday so sorry for not answering sooner...... If you PM me the file that it's crashing on then I can see what's happening and implement a fix for it. I've tried it myself on a lot of files and not had a problem with plunges. It copes with them on all the files I tried, but obviously there's a problem somewhere that I've not encountered yet. It would be very useful to see what's going wrong for you so I can fix it for everybody.

    Best Regards,
    Julian (Fozzy The Bear)
     
  15. kram242

    kram242 Administrator Staff Member

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    Welcome back Fozzy! :D
     
  16. JBourdon

    JBourdon New Member

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    Hi Julian,

    I just tried to replicate the problem from a new file, but it worked this time.

    I don't have anymore the original file that was crashing, but if I encounter the problem again, I will definitely keep it this time.

    One question I wanted to ask: why did you decide to use an external tool, rather than implement it directly inside the script? Still it's a pretty cool tool you've made
     
  17. FozzyTheBear

    FozzyTheBear Member

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    OK I'll try and answer this one briefly..... It's a bit of a complex multi part answer but I'll do my best to explain it.

    I personally needed access to Multipass, faster than Tim could implement it in the Phlatscript. We did have some extensive discussions on the subject of how to implement it and I sent Tim some flow charts and cut diagrams of how to make it work. He won't mind me saying that he is working on the implementation of an embedded version for the normal Phlatscript type cuts.

    So, why a separate utility.... OK, well this is where the answer becomes a little more complex, as there are several reasons.

    1) An embedded version will only be able to process Phlatscript output from Sketchup. The stand alone util, will (although it won't right now) be able to process other G-Code files and cut files and there are thousands of those out on the net.
    2) The Manglerizer is an ongoing development project. Right now I'm working on two new sections of it.

    The first of those is 2D+ cutting. This will allow you to cut signs (for example, with raised lettering and graphics) or to cut photo lithographs

    The second part is true 3D artwork cutting.... This will allow you to cut true 3D shapes and carvings in any material.

    Quick description of how that works and what it will mean for end users. At the moment, I'm working on both of the above facilities, based on height map technology. That is: you take a black and white (grey-scale) image of the 3D object you want to cut and the colour intensity of each pixel in the image determines how deep (z) the tool will cut at that point. So from a simple black and white image of the object you can create a full 3D cut file.... Now obviously some of those cut depths will be quite deep hence when you're cutting wood especially, you're going to need Multipass and because the cut files for this are not being generated in the Phlatscript, it needs to be able to generate Multipass independently.

    So the actual purpose of the Manglerizer is hopefully now clear to you... In that you'll be able to do 2D+ and 3D Artwork Cuts and Photographic 3D and Lithograph Cuts with ease. With a simple straightforward easy to use interface, just like the one that's currently in the Manglerizer. Eventually the application will become a full 3D drag and drop artwork carving designer.

    Hope that explains why it's a separate Utility and why you guys ended up with the advantage of being able to do Multipass, before it got implemented in the Phlatscript.

    Best Regards,
    Julian (Fozzy The Bear)
     
  18. gasmasher

    gasmasher New Member

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    To confirm, yes there will be multipass in the next version of the PS. Fozzy did a great job of beating me to market and I really like his utility. We discussed how it should all work and I used his outline to implement it in the PS.

    I don't expect any of the features he is planning to be available in SU or the PS anytime soon (as in the next year or so). It's nice to have a choice of tools.
     
  19. kneedrag

    kneedrag Member

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    I just logged on to have a quick look after seeing Mark's engine mount vid as I was about to start playing with ply... man this looks brilliant. I can't wait to get some ply now and run it through. ;-)
     
  20. rcav8r

    rcav8r Moderator Staff Member

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    First off THANKS for such a great tool. As others have said, sure does open a lot of possibilities...

    But unfortunately I keep getting an error. I have a file I tried to cut in one pass and had less than seller results. When I ran it in the Manglerizer, I get the following error. When I click to continue it errors out as I would expect it to with all those 0s in there.

    File should be set up for 1/8" material. I tried 2, 3, and 4 passes...
    I also tried with the original phlatscript, and with the constants.rb set for 100% (as opposed to 140%) although I didn't see any difference in the Z travel in the code.

    Also included is the CNC file I used.

    THANKS
    Dave Attached files [​IMG] bulldog_firewall.cnc (4.6 KB)Â
     
  21. kyyu

    kyyu Active Member

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    rcav8r,

    That dialog box itself, isn't an error. It always comes up, I guess to let you verify the settings. But it saids 0 Material Thickness, which is problem. And there sure is an error box if you click ok. I'm pretty sure the Manglerizer get its thickness value, from the header and for some strange reason, you cnc file has no header. It should have a header, from the phlatscript. Here is a pic for comparison:

    Attached files [​IMG]
     
  22. rcav8r

    rcav8r Moderator Staff Member

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    Yea, I figured the msgbox was normal... I just mis-typed in the post that it was the error not msgbox.
    Not sure why my CNC files have no header. I don't remember seeing any headers in any of my CNC files when I pull them up in MACH. Could be there as I wasn't looking, but I seem to remember them all starting like the one to the left in your example...my file. They are indeed created by the phlatscript. I'll have to check some other ones when i get home tonight.

    THANKS
     
  23. Klondar

    Klondar Member

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    If your running an older version of the Phlatscript it may lack the header we now have. In addition to the cool new features the new versions bring.
     
  24. 3DMON

    3DMON Moderator Staff Member

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    rcav8r I think Klondar hit the nail on the head. You need the newest version of the phlatscript.
    A lot has changed since you were gone. ;)
     
  25. FozzyTheBear

    FozzyTheBear Member

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    Hi Dave..... Sorry for not replying sooner..... Been a bit busy over the last few weeks....

    The guys have hit the nail squarely on the head there. The Manglerizer only works with the newer versions of the Phlatscript. As they explained, it gets all of it's set-up information from the header in the G-Code. Without the header information it has no way of knowing how thick your material is.

    You need to use the newer versions of the Phlatscript in order for it to work for you. It works with either of the last two releases. If you have any other problems you can always drop me a PM if you want to. I'm always happy to help people out and get things running for them.

    Hope that helps!

    Best Regards,
    Julian (Fozzy The Bear)
     

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